INTERACTIVE WRESTLING RADIO INTERVIEW -"Skinner" Steve Keirn

Show: Wrestling Epicenter
Guest: "Fabulous One" "Skinner" Steve Keirn
Date: 03/31/2023
Your Host: James Walsh



The Keirn Cronicles Volume 1 is on store shelves now and is a book that has gotten a lot of attention from all over the wrestling world including in mentions from CM Punk who wrote the forward. The first in at least 2 books telling the life story of a true wrestling legend, this book is an education on pro wrestling that all must read! This interview is an education as well!

 

You can pick up Steve Keirn's new book right now on Amazon.com by clicking here!

 

If you use any of this content on your site, YouTube video, or what have you, please link back to http://www.WrestlingEpicenter.com

 




 

STEVE KEIRN:

 

On why this was the right time for the book:
"Well, I have had people say that I should write a book for years because of my career and the many ways I've been involved in the business. I mean, 44 years from the time that I started wrestling until the time I ran the WWE Developmental territory FCW and then retired - There's a lot of history there! So, first of all, the young guys and girls that I taught wanted me to write it because they wanted to read it! They wanted to know more about me! And, of course, friends saying I should write it too. But, one of the biggest obstacles for me wasn't my memory... I think I'm pretty sharp for 71 years old... I think! I keep telling my wife to let me know if I start doing anything weird because I don't think you really know if you go crazy. I have a few friends who are a little borderline! (laughs) I'm not going to name any names. But, my career has spanned 4 generations. But, I'll say Brian Blair is a real close friend of mine. And, when WWE comes to down and we go down to the arena just to see the talent, Brian is amazed at just the gaps of generations that come up to me and say hello and give a hug. He's like, "How do you know them?" I go, "I taught those guys!" (laughs) Or, a lot of them... A lot of them are second generation wrestlers. That is something I was blessed to deal with because a lot of my close friends, their kids came through me! I've known some of the kids since they were in the 3rd grade and they are on their family's CHristmas cards. So, I would threaten to bring out the old CHristmas cards if they don't listen to me! (laughs)"

On the challenge of writing his book:
"You know, I looked at it like a challenge. This is my first book. And, I didn't graduate in the top of my high school class. (laughs) There were so many people in my class that ended up in the wrestling business, we were lucky to just get through! But, I accepted the challenge. People want to hear the stories! But, it is almost impossible to fit 44 years worth of wrestling in one book. 400 pages sounds like a lot. But, I'm amazed at how many people have told me that they breezed right through it or that they couldn't put it down and wanted to just keep reading. I was like, "Well, it isn't like a genius was in the process of having it written. So, try to keep it simple!"

On Ian Douglass' help with the book:
"He's incredible! I'm looking forward to finishing the second book! When I say he's incredible, I mean that he's a smart man. I don't mean "smart" as in like a mark - I mean he's an intelligent man. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would have helped me write my autobiography. But, what I was looking for is passion. Not passionate about the idea of writing about wrestling or writing for a wrestler but someone who is passionate about wrestling. THe only thing I can say is I can tell when someone is getting excited while I'm dictating them the stories. For those who don't watch wrestling and haven't watched wrestling which a lot of my trainees were in FCW... The only wrestlera lot of them knew in FCW was John Cena and I was like, "... Really?" But, to take stories about wrestling and make it make sense for everyone and not have people go, "WHat the heck are they talking about?" (laughs) So, he's a heck of a writer. I'm trying to have Jerry Brisco help get him nominated for an award that he has some pull with."

On having Stan Lane and CM Punk write the forwards to his book:
"There are a few variables on that. My objective was not to be the main event but to get along with my peers so nobody killed me out there. Amd tje second variable was to help people when it became my time. CM Punk and I have known each other for years. I watched him on the indies and I watched him grow and into the WWE system. I was in the position to have different people write forwards for my book. Of course, Stan Lane was a given. Stan was one half of the "Fabulous Ones" and that is where the book ends - It goes up to about the end of the Fabulous Ones where Stan goes off to WCW and the Midnight Express and I sort of kick around Florida trying to become a promoter and trying to make things happen... Some good times, some bad. It is more than a wrestling story. But, the reason I chose CM Punk - And I had to explain it to him... I could have name dropped in some friends. "Oh, he had so and so write the forward to get attention and say nice things about him." Instead, I wanted someone who would write the truth and not blow it out of proportion. That is what he did. I had to explain to him, "You know me. But, you don't really know me. We didn't ride together on the road for hours, you're not as old as I am, we didn't experience some things at the same time. But, you have a passion for the business. You don't really know me but you can know mroe about me. You can Google me. Wikipedia has quite a history on me. You can use a lot of the tools that are available now to do research. You (Punk) are a young, intelligent guy, and you're kind if in my category. You don't have a family name attached to you. You're not tied to anybody politically. You're a guy who got into the business to get what he could get and be happy with what you had... And you succeeded! And so, I would rather have a forward from someone who has a passion for wrestling and might have an opinion on me rather than have someone who is going to suck up to me because they have to see me all the time. (laughs) I mean, I wouldn't be like, "I can't believe what you wrote about me! Do you think I'm really going to print that?" (laughs) But, my friends would put things in there that would be overly embellished. It would be almost sappy. I knew tat. Everybody that is in the business is my friend... That is because I have respect for more people than most because I respect anybody that comes through that front door and wants to be in the business. You've got to be a little nuts to want to try and do this in the first place. And so, what happens to you really is not in your position to predict or dictate. Yours is just to get a job and do whatever you're told and you hope you get something good but sometimes you don't. That is kind of a long story about CM for ya, James. But, I didn't want you to think, "Oh, I just picked him out of my butt!" (laughs)"

On if CM Punk quoting from the book in terms of his current drama with AEW helps the book:
"I hope so! I mean, I didn't pick him because he's the most over guy or the most popular in terms of fans - I'm allowed to call them fans again! The day Vince McMahon had me and a bunch of us older guys in a room and told us, "We're not going to call them fans anymore!" We all looked at each other and said, "Boy, this is gonna be good!" I mean, there is nothing negative about being a fan! THere are all kinds of fans! Baseball fans, football fans! Vince said, "They'll get insulted. We're going to call them the Universe!" Well, that's gonna take some getting used to for me, Arn Anderson, Fit Finlay, and Mike Rotundo who were all sitting there looking at each other in the production meeting. (laughs) "OK! Man, you're gonna have to help me with this one!" I mean, I already got myself in trouble when they assigned me to the midgets and hen I said "midgets", Vince hit the ceiling on me! "They're not midgets! They're little people!" "Ok Vince. I'm not insulting them. I'm just saying since I was a kid and I went to see them, I was going to see the midgets wrestle! Now you're telling me to go out and teach 'em little people high spots... Not mdigets! (laughs) I got it! I got it!""

On not taking pot shots at people in the book:
"I'm not a loose cannon. I'm not interested in taking shots at people. I have no regrets and no remorse about my career. I knew it as a business from day one and I was always appreciative of those who contributed. You don't always get along with your boss and I had a lot of bosses! You can either stand up and keep getting a U-Haul! (laughs) Or, you can accept it and do the best you can to get over with them."

On his father being a twice POW in the US Air Force:
"Yeah. What you're talking about happened about 50 years ago. In fact, we just had the aniversary of his return recently, he came back home in 1972. Here's what happened. I grew up in Tampa but that's not where I was born. I was born in Ohio. Here's what happened. My father was in the ARMY Air Core in 1942 during World War II. At 19 years old, he was in World War II in Germany in a battle called the "Bloody 100." It was called that because it was the most notorious battle from shooting down B17's. Well, he got shot down and was held captive as a POW for 9 months. He came home. Well, the war was over and there wasn't much need for it. But, flying was his dream. So, he stayed in as an Air National Guard which is kind of like the reserves. This way, he coudl fly on the weekend. He also joined the Highway Patrol in Ohio. When the Air Force started in the early 50's, he joined. I came around (was born) in 1951. We lived in Ohio for the first 6 months of my life, then we moved to Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, Okinawa where we lived for 2 years, and North Carolina for another 2 years. We ended up at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa. There, my dad got called to fly the fastest airplane ever, the F4 Phantom. His dream had come true! The only thing was, the Cuban Missile Crisis came along first and he flew up and down the coast as part of that. Nothing really happened. Then, he went to Vietnam and on July 24, 1965, he was shot down with the first Sam missile ever used. His mission was to fly over Hanoi, shoot up Hanoi, and then fly over the Sam Missiles and see how accurate they were. Out of 5 planes, my dad's was the one that got shot down."

On becoming a man from the experience:
"There I was, 13 years old, coming home on a summer day and there were military vehicles outside my house. A guy grabbed me by the arm real stiff and pulled me down the hall past my mother who was crying. I had no idea. Well, the military cars were a big signal. This guy sits me on the bed and says, "Son, your dad died today. He was shot down over Vietnam with a Sam Missile. It was the first one ever used. His plane exploded. He's dead. You're the man of the family now." I started crying. I'm a pretty emotional person anyway but I was just told my dad died. He kind of shook me, not stiff but maybe kind of strength shake me and he goes, "You're the man!" I was like, "That's easy for you to say.""

On finding friends who later became wrestlers:
"Mike Graham and I went to school together along with Hulk Hogan, Austin Idol, and Dick Slater. So, when I was in school, I got to be friends with Mike. Mike was like the rich kid at the poor school. Mike shouldn't have been at Robinson but his father Eddie wanted him to get tough so he sent him to Robinson High School. It had a reputation for being a little rougher and I think it was because it was mostly lower income families. So, I went over to Mike's house and Eddie was a big patriot and he knew who my dad was. So, he said if I ever needed anything, I could ask him. So, I said, "Ya got 5 bucks?" (laughs) Nah, I didn't say that. But, he was always so generous. And, they were mega rich and we were mega poor. He always took me fishing and hunting. I mean, I did a lot of stuff with them. Mike was an only child and Eddie didn't mind including me. And, through Eddie, and I don't know if it was intentional or not but he would start introducing me to people who were wrestlers and say, "His father is a POW i Vietnam." So, it opened doors for me and people were real nice. But, it was still a struggle. Well, when I was about 16 years old, I started picking wrestlers up and driving them around. It was a very kayfabe business at the time. I mean, nobody talked about the business. Non-wrestlers were not allowed in the dressing rooms. But, I saw the guys after bloody matches and they were cut up and beat up. And, I was like, "I don't want anything to do with this business!" (laughs) Being a pro wrestler was on the last of my list. But, when I needed to ask a "man" question, I would go to Eddie and he'd always give me advice. So, in a way, Eddie Graham kind of became like a second father to me. Well, I went away to college to Jackson, MS where Ted DiBiase lives now... I had no education background from school. My biggest accomplishment in high school was I was good in Phys Ed. (laughs) So, I was a skinny kid but while I was in college, some guys gave me steroids and I went from being 160 pounds to 240. When I went home to Tampa, Eddie Graham saw me and was like, "Oh my God!" (laughs) I told him! Cops got me into power lifting. Well, Mike got married and I was in his wedding, Eddie kept telling me if college didn't work out for me, he had a place for me in wrestling. Well, college didn't even come close to working out for me! (laughs)"

On breaking in as a wrestler:
"If you know anything about Florida wrestling history, breaking in to Florida wrestling is compared to the Dungeon up there in Canada. I started riding with Mike to towns and do things like ring announcing and such and then theys tarted working me in the ring... And they beat the living shit out of me! (laughs) Hiro Matsuda would stretch me to a deck of cards and then he'd have me do push ups and wrenches and by then, my sister could have beat me! He didn't have to do all of that. He was capable of beating me without all of that. But, he'd have me as a rag doll in his hands! So, I went home and my mom was like, "What's the matter with your face?" (laughs) I said, "Those are called mat burns, Mom. It is what happens when you kiss the mat with your face." She goes, "Steve, I always thought wrestling was fake!" I looked back and I'll never forget this, I looked back and said, "So did I!" (laughs)"

On training talent more gently than he was trained:
"No, not gentle. Wrestling is never gentle. I started training guys in 1981 because I knew there was an end one day and I didn't ever want to be an old wrestler. I was aggressive in the ring and I never wanted to embarrass myself or my family by going in the ring and not be able to do anything. So, the first guy I trained was Tracy Smothers. But, here is what I took away from "Old Theory." After I was traveling up and down the roads for about 5 years, I would find myself sitting in the backseat and wonder to myself, "Now why in the Hell did Matsuda beat the Hell out of me? Did he want to keep me out or did he want me to protect the wrestling business and make me protect kayfabe?" Really, psychologically, that is what it was all about. But, really, by the time I started training guys, the business had already changed. It was no longer a kayfabe industry. So, I changed accordingly. But, back in the 1970's, when we were at bars, and this happened a lot, guys would come up to us and say, "You're one of those wrestlers, right?" We'd be like, "Yeah..." "Who would win in a fight between a wrestler and a black belt?" "Well, if you're the black belt and I'm the wrestler, why don't we step outside into that phone booth out there and lets see who comes out of it. (laughs) The guy would almost always look at you like you had too much confidence but would decline or try to find a nice way out of it."

On people hearing "Sharp Dressed Man by ZZ Top and immediately thinking of the Fabulous Ones:
"That was the genius of Jerry Jarret who just recently passed away. Wrestling has a way of blessing and cursing you. The Fabulous Ones, that was a blessing. And, the timing was right. MTV had just started and instead of just hearing the songs, you would see the artists doing various skits and things along to the music. All generations were pumped! We were patterned after the Fabulous Fargos, of course, who were a famous team in Tennessee territory for years and were over like Rover. Jackie Fargo was the Dusty Rhodes of Tennessee! So, when they endorsed us and called us the "Fabulous Ones" and had Jackie Fargo as a manager, he just handed all of his band on a silver plate. It was a tough territory because you would be the same place 52 times a year and every week, you had to give them something different. (laughs) You better not go out there and have the same match they've already seen! So, when the Fabulous Ones started, I was already a 12 year veteran. I had worked the NWA territories and worked with veterans who all taught me and also made me look a lot better than I was. So, when the Fabulous Ones started, Stan and I were great friends. We never ever had an argument or sat in the car quiet with something that was bothering us. We did double team some guys in the car, though! We got on them. We were the Nasty Boys in tuxedos before they came along! (laughs) So, it was at the start of an era and most guys didn't work out back then and didn't look the way Stan and I looked. In fact, from a distance, Stan and I looked alike with the blonde hair and beards... Even the beards, most guys didn't have beards back then! Now, (laughs), I told the guys in FCW, "Man, if you wanna get over with Vince McMahon, grow a beard!" (laughs)"

On other teams borrowing from the Fabulous Ones' success:
"You know as well as I do that the most sincere form of flattery is imitation. Man, the market flooded with imitation Fabulous Ones. Close looks, music and things. It is no one's fault. Everybody was trying to make a living. The Fantastics were a little edgy... That was a little too close! The same music, the same moves, the same everything. (laughs) That was starting to get a little too close!"

On being a part of the first ever wrestling action figure line:
"I was a part of the very first ones! Stan and I got figures in the AWA REMCO action figures line. Man, being a doll... I went to Toys R Us in Minneapolis... I was like 30 years old and I saw myself in action figure form... I looked way better as an action figure than I ever did in real life! I pulled every one of them off the shelf and put them in my cart. I checked out and the guy at the counter said, "YOu must really like wrestling." I was like, "Well, yeah, but, this action figure is me." He looked at it and then looked at me and was like, "Yeah right!" (laughs)

On becoming "Skinner" in the WWE:
"I had just participated in an alligator harvest, they called it a harvest but it was really a hunt, and I killed 15 of them. So, when I met Vince, I brought some stuff. I had all kinds of stuff like skins, paws, and claws, teeth and I laid it on the table. Vince was like, "This is some cool stuff." He had Undertaker, Big Bossman, but there was no "Skinner" guy there. Little did I know that Skinner is what it would be. But, he told me, "Go home and let your hair grow back natural brown, let your beard grow out long and shaggy, not that Miami Vice look you've got now." I was like, "But I'm cute!" (laughs) "I've been a Fabulous One for 6 years now. My objective is being cute" (laughs) So, I go back up and Vince goes, "Ok, Steve. We've got the character for you. Have you ever seen Deliverance?" I was like, "Yeah, about 10 times!" I was sucking up! (laughs) Vince goes, "Ok, we want you to be one of those guys fro the booth." Honest to God, James, I thought he wanted me to be Bert Reynolds. (laughs) So, I said, "You mean Bert Reynolds, right?" He goes, "No! I want you to be one of those guys in the woods that goes "You've got a right pretty mouth."" (laughs) I was like, "Those guys weren't cute!" He says, "You're not going to be cute." (laughs) So, I said that would not be a problem. Riding in cars, when you work in real redneck territories, you develop the ability to speak redneck!"

On working with the Ultimate Warrior:
"I worked with Warrior a few times. I don't think he knew too much about me because he came up to me and went over what he wanted to do and said, "Don't get that tobacco stuff near me." It wasn't tobacco. It was just licorice .So, during the match, I spat it right on him. Of course, I was doing the job. That was where I was on the card. But, he never said anything to me about it after the fact. So, I guess it went OK!"

On if he wants to be in the WWE Hall of Fame:
"I get asked that a lot and sometimes I think of one of those voices in the distance. (laughs) Here's the thing. This business is a work. So, the Hall of Fame is different than other Hall of Fames. Don't get me wrong. The people that go in? They all deserve to be in there. But, they don't all go in on their abilities as a worker. Sometimes it is different reasons. Sometimes it is nationalities, This year, I see Muta is going in the Hall of Fame. Nothing wrong with Muta, why is he going in the WWE Hall of Fame? What did he ever do for WWE? Did he ever work in the WWE? Andy Kaufman! I was there on the card the night Jerry Lawler piledrove Andy Kaufman and he was kind of a joke in the back. And, I never even thought he was funny! (laughs) I mean, he could barely ever get me to smile (on Taxi). I mean, he was no George Carlin! So, he's going into the Hall of Fame. A few years ago, the Bella Twins were put in the WWE Hall of Fame. It was only a couple of years ago that they came out of FCW and now they're in the Hall of Fame! So, I don't put a lot of merit in the Hall of Fame. You've got the wrong guy on if you don't want honesty! (laughs) Is it an honor? Absolutely, it is an honor. If it gives the guys a boost in their living and their ego, great! But, there should be other guys in. If the Great Muta is in, shouldn't guys like Bobby Eaton be in the Hall of Fame? If the Rock and Roll Express are in, shouldn't the Midnight Express with Bobby and Stan be in? I mean, I saw where Jeff Jarrett went in a few years ago after he stuffed the business up their ass when he refused to do the job to Chyna and started that whole other thing. So, do I give any weight to the Hall of Fame? No! (laughs) If they called and asked me if I would go in, the first question I would ask would be, "Why?""

On his trainee Roman Reigns facing Cody Rhodes, hos friend's son, at WrestleMania in the main event:
"It is great because they are at the highest level on the biggest stage. So, they've stepped up to as high as you can go. And, I am partial to a lot of the second generation guys because of what they had to grow up with and what their families have done for the business. I've got kids of my own and they had to go without me at a lot of different functions because I was working. So, with Roman having his dad be a worker, Cody with his dad being a worker, they grew up knowing the business but not really knowing the business. I mean, I would miss so many holidays with my family. I can't remember ever having a Thanksgiving dinner when I was wrestling because the Holidays were a busy time for us and if you ate Thanksgiving dinner, you'd throw it up in the ring! But, back to Steve's opinion, I love that these guys are in the main event because they both look like men. They dress like wrestlers. They work out! I watched the show this past Monday because I knew it was the go home show before WrestleMania and I saw these two guys and they look like men! They look the part. And, I don't see that in a lot of other shows."

On wrestlers not looking the part:
"I see some of the shows and I see some of these kiddy looking guys, small guys, and not workout guys, or any kind of workout guys and they're doing air moves and I try to relate and not be like an old dinosaur. But, here's why I think the way I do. When I was a kid, Eddie Graham told me, "Kid, you probably won't get into the main events until you're in your 30's because before that, the fans won't accept you as a man yet." When they see a young immature kid, they won't see that person as a man yet. But, when they see a guy who is in his 30's, they will see a man!

On what caused the change:
"I have a theory on it. When the local territories died and the matches on th e WWE show were all main events from all over the country - The Von Erichs, Ricky Steamboat, it was endless. Well, every match was a main event somewhere. But, now, it could be the first or second match! The difference between now and then is we worked with emotion. We made the audience feel. We took the people on a ride on a journey of good versus evil and that is what people got into. Now, it is about movement. Movement and memorization! They do high risk after high risk after high risk and moonsault after moonsault after moonsault. And, hey, that is what the audience has paid to see and expect and that is what they get. When I was working, 5 out of 6 territories, it was illegal to go over or jump off of the top rope. But, I look at it now and I'm like, "There is no way I would've ever been involved in this business!" (laughs)"